[MG] Hosting tools - was Global advisory parliament

conseo 4consensus at web.de
Tue May 31 19:29:47 EDT 2011

Am Sunday 29 May 2011 schrieb Alexander Praetorius:
> No, I did not say I wasn?t interested, but it was too difficult to figure
> out how to vote for what. I also have no opinion on the subject. You could
> count it as an abstention. ...the subject wasn?t important enough to me to
> invest the time to figure out how to cast my vote, because I was ok with
> all the proposals that were mentioned in the mailing list.

Bring any issue to the table and start using the metagoverment tools. You 
don't have to care about the web page, anything which has to be figured out 
socially is discussable. You can also mark the discussion/drafting and poll as 
an example for Votorola, so you don't necessarily have to use your personal 
political opinions or issues of metagovernment, if you decide to stick to 
politics. (In fact Votorola also fits theoretical and even artistical 
collaboration as can be seen by the history of its development.) I think this 
is what is planned next on Mike's agenda anyway. So if you want things to get 
going then you have to push them yourself as well.

> @Joe-Average
> You say everyone here would agree on the goal I was talking about... (Joe
> Average should be able to host the tools for his community) But Ed said
> something else I think. It was also said that skilled IT admins are
> targeted right now and there are no concrete plans and no top priority to
> get something done that could be used by Joe Average. It would also invite
> other people to do some coding. It's not motivating to contribute to
> something that cannot be used, because there is no usable "product" yet.
> Yes, all the theorycrafting and all the details must be talked through and
> they all should be part of the software, but what's the top priority? Is
> there a list of issues of what to do in which order? Is there a plan? Did
> we get the chance to vote for the priorities of that issues? Can't we use
> our tools for such a thing? Wont it help us to see where improvements
> might help?

I also think that you beat a dead horse here. a) I never said we target 
admins, it is just that there are enough people out there to keep the admin a 
non critical point in *our* designed setup. Otherwise we would need a 
serverless P2P network which basically means to put technological means first 
and not the social needs (and serverless P2P is *very* fragile and difficult to 
do right). There does not exist something like a 1-click installer for most 
apps. We also talk about web-apps here, so the barrier is not installing but 
using them. We can provide virtual appliances once we have a stable version to 
get your own box setup very quickly.
b) There is no shortcut to get the software running by lowering some barrier 
when we don't know what it is supposed to do in the end. We can optimize and 
streamline the process once we have a running and used prototype and want to 
get it stable. All code is open, I have an instance running for my test-setup 
here and I can tell you that it is while still being developed impossible for 
any software to have a sane setup path (because it is being developed). Have a 
look at what Ubuntu tries to do for the server edition for 11.10. Their agenda 
says they want to make cloud servers very easy to setup, so you can handle 
them like software. We want that, too, but like them we first need to get the 
infrastructure setup and then we can streamline it. And it has taken them 
years to get their edition there. 
Can you develop software? Because it is easy to misjudge a technological 
situation from the outside... If you can then you can help us directly.

I hope I made clear that there is no reason to be frustrated over the plan, 
because it simply takes a lot of time to get it right.  (Have a look at the 
developping time frame of Votorola, which reachs back to 2001 or sth. if I 
recall it right and Mike's vision has radically changed inbetween).
We, that is at least Mike, Thomas and me, can't wait to deploy it, but we have 
to and we need to work on it if we want it to be faster.

> @Font Size
> Thomas said my font size looks pretty small, is that true?
> --
> Alex


Originally posted to the mailing list of the Metagovernment Project:

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