[MG] Fwd: Decorating the bite feed - coding plan

[conseo]

Hey Alex,

> 
> I'm not sure where you guys are having your back room discussion about
> crossforum, but I'm glad you are talking.  I simply hoped to save you
> some work, Mike, and you can of course proceed as you see fit, and
> don't need my permission.  If you want to tell me where you think my
> understanding falls short I'll be grateful to understand.  Obviously I
> am not privvy to your discussion, and so I cannot say what I don't
> understand.

Sorry, I didn't knew we have a problem here. I am pretty new here and I really 
appreciate if you can introduce me to what you have done/discussed in the 
past, especially if it is critical towards Votorola and the concepts. I am not 
bound in the way of "this is my project, it has to succeed" with my 
participation, but I rather want e-dem to succeed overall and then work on 
these grounds even if it means dropping my work at some point. We are by far 
not there yet, nobody is as far as I can tell, since people can't organize 
their every day problems on such a platform yet and no platform has 
(therefore) an average unpolitical or even large political user base. We might 
be close to real use cases though, so turning will be definetly necessary for 
some project or the other once we know how society will use this thing.

In fact I have had a close look at liquidfeedback and adhocracy first, before 
exploring votorola, which by concepts and perspective has convinced me most 
although it was a bit hidden. If you have discussed its drawbacks (esp. also 
Crossforum) with Mike before maybe you could point this out with a link for 
me?
I also don't have backroom discussions and I am sorry if I have not posted all 
discussions here in the first place. I am not discussing implementation details 
or concepts privately with Mike anymore (except of course when skyping, which 
is not ideal as I see now). As I have said I am pretty new and I am interested 
in teaming up as far as possible, the same way Mike is to my impression. I 
have skyped with Mike a lot to get an overview what is going on in Votorola 
and in general. I wouldn't be here on the list without him, I guess. We both 
want to open up the reasoning and concepts as far as we can without getting 
stuck to plain discussion and getting distracted from actually building the 
thing up, since the more people who join in the faster e-dem will succeed. 

> 
> > Just to add to my other post in the Drupal thread: Alex, I share your
> > point of view, but I think we are *not* reinventing the wheel here. In
> > fact we do the opposite. Michael has split up the concept not only on a
> > library middleware perspective, but on the level of whole entities of
> > the network. That way what we do is only focusing on the necessary glue
> > in between abstract concepts of these entities like pollservers,
> > drafting media or discussion media. We do *more* code sharing than that
> > although we implement our infrastructure from scratch. It is maybe not
> > easy to see, but feeding services and likely even the mapper are not too
> > difficult to program, since they are basic concepts of
> > UI-/Web-programming and data handling anyway. But using some middleware
> > we get locked in their perspective of the web, which is in case of Atom
> > already a design problem for us. We can easily plug in middleware later
> > to put our data in any standard form you like. I'd like to do it for
> > Atom with Abdera at least for the feed service, but this is low priority
> > atm, as Crossforum is the way to go.
> 
> As I've understood it the point of the crossforum app, when I was
> writing original use cases for it, was to demonstrate one use case.  I
> hear you say "infrastructure" and it sounds like moving beyond a use
> case, and so I offer the same advice I did to Mike so many months ago,
> that this work has, by and large, been done within Drupal, and
> required much more time to do correctly than I think is available to
> build it from scratch within this context.  You can tear down Drupal
> to my face and it won't hurt my feelings; it doesn't change the fact
> that it does most of what I understand you want to do.

I don't have a problem with Drupal, I am using it myself atm. and I have 
already programmed some blog client side code for it (and others). I do 
understand the very modular concept of it, although I will have to have a look 
at the feeds stuff you mentioned. I don't think tearing down a foss project is 
by any means reasonable. It completely contradicts the meaning of open and 
cooperative development and exploring web technologie imo. So sorry if I have 
tipped on your toes. I'll try to keep the arguments about Drupal in the other 
thread.

Christian



Originally posted to the mailing list of the Metagovernment Project:
http://metagovernment.org/mailman/listinfo/start_metagovernment.org