[Ag Meinungsfindungstool] (SMVcon) Developers cooperating withAG Meinungsfindungstool

Tue Mar 5 03:43:45 EST 2013

Maybe this is the way to bring forward "vote mirroring"

On Tue, Mar 5, 2013 at 8:08 AM, marc <marc at merkstduwas.de> wrote:

> Hi Micheal,
>
> Currently the working group AG MFT tries to establish several kind of
> prototypes of a) one concrete methodology (qkonsens), b) concrete
> portal/web site (probble.de) and c) concrete Common Discussion Standard
> based on an ontology and a web api (disco.codeplex.com).
>
> As you put it, all our work is part of #2 (Discussion System) within the
> overall decision-making process. But nevertheless, I don't think that our
> working group wants to be competitor to any other project in this area. Our
> aim is rather to cooperate with as much projects as possible.
>
> Unfortunately the progress of our working group based on our volunteer
> work is not as fast as I would like to see it. For a better progress our
> working group devided into the following four teams:
> a) Ontology Definition Team (ODT) - deals with the ontology specification.
> b) Prototype Core Team (PCT) - deals with the imlementation of a database
> schema based on the ontology and a web api to access the data in a restful
> way.
> c) Prototype Plug-In Team )PPT) - deals with the implementation of
> concrete discussion methodologies.
> d) Public Releations Team (PRT) - deals with our 'public relations' ;o)
>
> My individual next tasks are in terms of the PCT a) to create a conceptual
> description of our d!sco prototype on CodePlex and b) creating a first
> implementation of the Web API.
>
> As soon as this is established, I would like to invite you to brainstorm
> about possible collaboration. From our point of view this is a question of
> how to make the data available for all other interested parties. Because
> our goal is to define a common discussion ontologie, inspired by and
> particularly based on eDialogus (http://www.imc.com.gr/**
> ontologies/eDialogos/**consensus/<http://www.imc.com.gr/ontologies/eDialogos/consensus/>
> ).
>
> So the overall question to be answered from your side is: Do you want to
> participate in such kind of standardized ontology to enable easy data
> exchange with any participating tool?
>
> I would like to welcome you. What do you think?
>
> Cheers
> marc
>
>
> -----Original Message----- From: Michael Allan
> Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2013 5:19 AM
> To: AG Meinungsfindungstool
> Cc: Votorola ; Start/Metagov ; AG Liquid Democracy
> Subject: Re: [Ag Meinungsfindungstool] (SMVcon) Developers cooperating
> withAG Meinungsfindungstool
>
> Thanks for offering, Marc.  We both feel the same.
>
> To answer your question, our purpose is to coordinate plans of action
> (i.e. to achieve public autonomy) by the method of discussion aimed at
> mutual understanding and consensus (i.e. public opinion).  In your
> diagram, this translates to "position forming" (Standpunktbildung)
> based on a discussion system.
>
>  http://wiki.piratenpartei.de/**wiki/images/7/72/MFT_**BigPicture_v01.jpg<http://wiki.piratenpartei.de/wiki/images/7/72/MFT_BigPicture_v01.jpg>
>> Where would you locate Votorola inside this picture?
>>
>
> So we're sitting at #2.  That makes us competitors.  We (Votorolans,
> Outcasters) have been at this for years, where you (AGM) are just
> getting started.  But I welcome your offer to cooperate, because I
> fear that otherwise we might do harm to people.  If either of our
> platforms were ever to establish itself as a de-facto monopoly that
> suppresses other choices through network effects, then users and
> citizens would be robbed not only of their freedom, but also of the
> opportunity to be the authors of that freedom.
>
> How can we cooperate to prevent that?
>
> Mike
>
>
> marc said:
>
>> Hi Michael,
>>
>> Yes, of course. We would also like to cooperate with Votorola.
>>
>> I don't know if you have seen the following big picture (overview of the
>> decision-making-process) yet:
>> http://wiki.piratenpartei.de/**wiki/images/7/72/MFT_**BigPicture_v01.jpg<http://wiki.piratenpartei.de/wiki/images/7/72/MFT_BigPicture_v01.jpg>
>>
>> Where would you locate Votorola inside this picture?
>>
>> Cheers
>> marc
>>
>> -----Original Message----- From: Michael Allan
>> Sent: Monday, March 04, 2013 8:27 AM
>> To: AG Meinungsfindungstool
>> Cc: Votorola ; Start/Metagov ; AG Liquid Democracy
>> Subject: [Ag Meinungsfindungstool] (SMVcon) Developers cooperating with
>> AGMeinungsfindungstool
>>
>> Hello Marc,  (cc Votorola, Metagov, AG Liquid Democracy)
>>
>> > Top 1 - Abstimmungen
>> > Fragekatalog für SMVCon
>> > http://meinungsfindungstool.**piratenpad.de/**SMVConFragenkatalog<http://meinungsfindungstool.piratenpad.de/SMVConFragenkatalog>
>>
>> Unfortunately I can't attend SMVcon.  But I'd like to share my answer
>> to one item of the proposed questionnaire (Fragekatalog):
>>
>>   * Are you a developer?  If so, can you imagine cooperating with AG
>>     Meinungsfindungstool in the development of a discussion tool?
>>
>> Yes, I'm a developer for Votorola.  Speaking for myself, I'd like to
>> cooperate.  My main requirement would be that the core platform remain
>> open to all technical designs, including Votorola's.  I think the
>> competence to delimit the user's choice of tools belongs to the user
>> alone, while we as responsible engineers are competent only to enhance
>> and extend that personal choice, never to impede it!  We've long
>> understood how to give each user complete freedom of choice in regard
>> to discussion and opinion-forming tools.  We know of at least one
>> solution (already posted to these lists) that nobody has yet found a
>> fault with; namely free-range voting based on vote mirroring.
>>
>> Please let's not surrender our responsibilities and freedoms to a
>> monopoly controlled by technocrats, or by anyone else.  Instead, let's
>> root out the would-be monopolies and bust them up.  Or better yet,
>> let's prevent them forming in the first place.  (Again, we know how,
>> because it's the same solution.)
>>
>> --
>> Michael Allan
>>
>> Toronto, +1 416-699-9528
>> http://zelea.com/
>>
>
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-- 

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