Forming a Sovereign State -- was Re: [MG] Wise Use of Funds Raised

Mon Jun 17 22:58:52 EDT 2013

It's an intriguing idea. Metagov is currently characterized as a "tribe"
http://metagovernment.org/wiki/Metagovernment
and that can be looked at as a stepping-stone to statehood. But some issues come to mind. Sounds like you have been looking into it, so perhaps have ready answers.

States exist based on a consensus of other states. Thus "recognition" is the all-important definer of statehood. Presumably the entrenched states would never recognize a new, geography-independant state. So until such time as the new state had a massive majority, wouldn't it be essentially (or perhaps quite literally) an outlaw organization -- even a criminal and/or treasonous operation by the definitions of existing states?

Since it would be geography-independent (that is what you're saying, right? Like Metagov is now), that would imply that anyone claiming citizenship in it would be inherently an alien (or criminal) in their own geography. Wouldn't it?

Concerning freemasonry and/or ideology, I wouldn't be comfortable with Metagov advancing any ideology. The whole point of the project is to be inclusive as possible and to be as neutral as possible on anything where we don't need to take a stand. About the only area where we absolutely need to take a stand, ideologically, is against authoritarianism. It is simply the exact opposite of what we're advocating, so it's a bit difficult to accommodate... though I'm open to suggestions. ;)
(In fact, I can think of some ways in which authoritarianism isn't totally contra-indicated by Metagov. For example, if we started a non-profit organization, the actual employees of the organization might work within an authoritarian structure (where there are bosses and subordinates), but the governing body could still be the collaborative-governance-structure of this group.)

Ned makes the summation of "run parallel and render obsolete." That is already the strategy of Metagov, but in a much more gradual way. See the Transition section of the home page:
http://metagovernment.org/
This ad hoc strategy seems more in-line with our general nature of openness and adaptability. But as I said, the state idea certainly is intriguing, so I'd be interested in hearing more.

On Jun 17, 2013, at 11:30 AM, Mark Giza wrote:

> Did you ever think composing it as a soveriegn state?
> Now a lot of soveriegners get looked down upon. 
> I have been speaking very highly of this system.
> Actually I had the idea to do it years ago and was pleased to see your group had already done the footwork.
> Now realize the united states is diminishing collection of states and corporations.
> So basically its like trying to invest in amway. That time has passed. Its a ghost ship.
> Now to get approval from the freemasons.
> You need to seperate yourself but promote ideas they are trying to accomplish currently. 
> Like the north american union.
> So basically establish your own state.
> Offer people a clean slate and new identity when they join.
> The united states wouldn't like that but if you play your cards right and support the new world order at this time they will look at it as a supporting state.
> I have put tons of time into this.
> I have lots of support from the anonymous organization.
> So when you establish your own state which is just a matter of paperwork and I would be honored to help with.
> I would consider helping 100% with your movement.
> United states is a dying dog. Nothing more.
> They are deliberatly destroying the economy to force the public into buying into the north american union.
> Which is fine with me. The us is on autopilot for desteuction.
> But if you establish yourself as a friendly state.
> Support the masonic views and lead on to helping them accomplish a common goal. I'm sure it won't be a problem using the Amero as the new currency to finance your project. 
> I have about ten years of research of creating new states and international law. 
> Let me know if your interested. 
> Ttyl
> Namaste
> 
> On Jun 17, 2013 7:45 AM, "Ed Pastore" <epastore at metagovernment.org> wrote:
> Hi, Ned. The idea I have been floating on the Votorola list is just that: an idea I'm mulling over. I brought it up prematurely because of the post Rhett had made there. But it is all about resources.
> 
> Currently, the resources I have available for Metagov are tiny scraps of time I manage to eke out between the heavy demands of my job, my business, and caring for a sick family-member.
> 
> I would prefer for Metagov to be my full-time job, but the only practical way for me to make that happen is to organize it as an American non-profit corporation. Then I could work up to spending significant amounts of time writing grant proposals to foundations in the hopes of building up a treasury which we could then use to fund publicity efforts as well as to fund coding projects (plus I could work on making back-end improvements such as expanding on the limitations of the list server).
> 
> I've repeatedly floated the idea of creating a formal organization, but I've had a lot of trouble with the idea of making it an American company. It just seems wrong for our group to be tied to one country. Especially the United States, where relatively few of our members reside and where the tax laws are intrusive and burdensome. There's also a lot of legal work to be done to figure out if we can create a non-profit which is governed not by a board of directors but by collaborative governance. On the other hand, the U.S. is the place where a large bulk of the moneyed foundations reside; and generally they only fund American non-profits ("501c3's").
> 
> Rather than figuring out what to do with the scarce resources we have now, I would love the opportunity to grow them into a more formidable stash. I am open to ideas, suggestions, alternative thinking, etc.
> 
> 
> On Jun 16, 2013, at 7:40 PM, Ned Conner wrote:
> 
>> There is an active thread over on the Votorola listserv that is raising many important issues for discussion:
>> A New Party Dedicated to Implementing Public Voting.
>> 
>> The root links to the thread are:
>> http://mail.zelea.com/list/votorola/2013-June/001748.html
>> http://mail.zelea.com/list/votorola/2013-June/001753.html
>> http://mail.zelea.com/list/votorola/2013-June/001749.html (and following)
>> 
>> As often happens when we try to use listserv platforms for rational discourse, the thread started out as a specific invitation from Rhett Pepe to Michael Allen, and has since morphed into a wide-ranging informal conversation between Michael Allen and Ed Pastore. (As an aside, to effectively and efficiently support decision making through rational discourse, we need a system that features professional profiling and automatic multi-threading of each unit and sub-unit of the discourse, and that structurally, procedurally, reliably, transparently connects the discourse outcome to the decision outcome. Blinap alone among all extant decision system designs provides these features. The listserv platform has none of these features.)
>> Below is a list dealing with one issue, extracted from the thread, of aims and values and objectives and strategies, with my addition appended.
>> Rhett wants to start a new (mixed-format) political party (and run for city council), as a means to infiltrate Representative Democracy with Direct Democracy.
>> Ed wants freedom from representation.
>> Ed wants consensus-oriented direct democracy.
>> Ed is also (like Rhett) considering founding a mixed-format party, as a stepping stone.
>> Ned thinks that using our scarce resources to directly compete against entrenched powers (that have vastly more resources) on their own turf (in our currently existing polyarchies) would be a monumental waste of our scarce resources. We can more quickly and efficiently create a more effective global "bully pulpit" if we do not engage in the utter waste of competing directly (creating political parties, running for office, buying advertising, funding political campaigns, etc.).
>> _______________________________________________
>> Start : a mailing list of the Metagovernment project
>> http://www.metagovernment.org/
>> Post to the list: Start at metagovernment.org
>> Manage subscription: http://metagovernment.org/mailman/listinfo/start_metagovernment.org
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Start : a mailing list of the Metagovernment project
> http://www.metagovernment.org/
> Post to the list: Start at metagovernment.org
> Manage subscription: http://metagovernment.org/mailman/listinfo/start_metagovernment.org
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Start : a mailing list of the Metagovernment project
> http://www.metagovernment.org/
> Post to the list: Start at metagovernment.org
> Manage subscription: http://metagovernment.org/mailman/listinfo/start_metagovernment.org

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