(BUG) Operation of harvest kick mechanism is unclear

Thomas von der Elbe ThomasvonderElbe at gmx.de
Thu Dec 6 05:26:23 EST 2012

Hey C,

hm, I did what you described, i.e. added the mailing list to my position 
page, but my post does not appear after hitting the "?".

I posted this diff to the list: 

Am I missing something?


On Thu, 29 Nov 2012 21:08, conseo wrote:
> Hey guys,
> Michael Allan wrote:
>> Thomas von der Elbe said (in the other thread):
>>> Btw, why is my latest post (diff) in the home-page-thread not shown
>>> in the talk-track. Wasn't metagov not being harvested too?
>> http://metagovernment.org/pipermail/start_metagovernment.org/2012-November/0
>> 05207.html First you have to make the kick button appear in the talk track.
>> Currently it looks like a '?'.  (I think you need to be at a position
>> in votespace, e.g. by navigating in the vote track.)  I'm not sure if
>> you need to be at a *particular* position, but I think so.  I think it
>> harvests messages for a single group (candidate and immediate voters).
>> Then you press it.
>> Probably the fix is to make the button more self-explanatory.
>> (1) Maybe it should have something like a tooltip.
>>                 Harvest messages for candidate C's group
>>                     /
>>           -------- ?
>> (2) Maybe also enabled/disabled state instead of being added/removed,
>> because that transition can be disorienting:
>>             --------     no kick button
>>           -------- ?     button appears
>> Wheras this one is more informative:
>>           -------- -     button disabled
>>           -------- ?     button enabled
>> (3) Maybe also a special tooltip for the disabled state:
>>                 Cannot harvest messages, no group selected
>>                     /
>>           -------- -
>> What do you guys think?
> @Mike
> I agree that we should have a placeholder, but the problem is still how to
> model the update function so people get what they want (and understand how it
> works). We already have a (dumb) tooltip.
> @Thomas
> Preamble: The button-solution still hides the main problem, which is that we
> need user interaction to trigger updates. Since we have no way found yet to
> detect when new messages are posted somewhere, we have to rely on the user to
> tell us. (Forums are cut off from us)
> 1) Currently we have come to the conclusion to model the discourse depending
> on candidate forums, so you are expected to post to forums of your candidate.
> In your case you are end-candidate (special case), so you define it for your
> peers:
> http://zelea.com/w/User:ThomasvonderElbe_GmxDe/G/p/mho
> Forums are currently not configured there, you can see how to set the Metagov-
> list as a forum for a position here:
> http://zelea.com/w/User:4consensus_WebDe/G/p/mho
> 2) Once it is set there you can hit the '?' on your page and it will look for
> new messages in the metagov archive.
> Note that currently this update-call does not cascade down the tree, so it is
> only the forums of your candidate which are triggered. Not your candidate's
> candidate ones, etc.
> Mike pointed out that harvesting forums set on your own page is not really the
> point, as you are trying to discuss with covoters and candidate and not in
> some other forums. So if you were voter for e.g. Ed, then only forums on Ed's
> position are updated when you hit '?' on your page, not yours. But you define
> the forums for the '?' button on your voters page.
> We know that this is not very intuitive, but we have to find a way to get
> clear update events without triggering all kind of forum updates for the whole
> tree and we can only do so by defining clearly which forums are used for
> discussion. Do you have any ideas of how to model that discourse update
> better? I have asked myself if we can make it implicit, e.g. just by selecting
> posts in the talk-track on a position.
> conseo
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