Constantly improving, serving the community

[Michael Allan]

Michael and Augustin, (cc Votorola)

Michael Ossipoff said:
> Thanks for your suggestions.

You're welcome.

> >   * Display live counts and other signs of activity.  Otherwise
> >     newcomers will assume the site is dead or dying.
> 
> As each new vote changes the candidates' totals and scores, that is
> immediately shown in the posted results. The results are shown
> directly above the ballot, when someone selects the link to one of
> the poll ballotings.

I see a link above the ballot labeled "Poll results".  When I click,
it says "You must vote here before you can see the results".
http://minguo.info/usa/node/105


Augustin said:
> If one clicks on the 'Recent Posts' link, one can see that there has
> been a lost of activity recently:
> http://minguo.info/usa/tracker
> This tracker is especially useful for registered members as they can
> see which polls have been updated, which content has been created
> and which blogs have had comments added since their last visit.

What people say is attractive, I agree, especially in a social context
(discussion) and especially where it concerns the issue being voted on
*and* that issue hangs in the balance.  I think the design problem is
to show this complex of information immediately to the newcomer,
because these are the goods.  Little else matters.

This is one of the problems I address here, specifically its visual
aspects: http://mail.zelea.com/list/votorola/2012-August/001402.html
Please help us hammer out a solution,

-- 
Michael Allan

Toronto, +1 416-699-9528
http://zelea.com/


Michael Ossipoff said:
> On Fri, Aug 17, 2012 at 10:49 AM, Michael Allan <mike at zelea.com> wrote:
> > Michael and Augustin, some suggestions for improving the site:
> >
> 
> Michael Allan:
> 
> Thanks for your suggestions.
> 
> >   * Display live counts and other signs of activity.  Otherwise
> >     newcomers will assume the site is dead or dying.
> 
> As each new vote changes the candidates' totals and scores, that is
> immediately shown in the posted results. The results are shown
> directly above the ballot, when someone selects the link to one of the
> poll ballotings.
> 
> 
> >   * Show the contribution of each participant.  Don't just take it and
> >     give nothing in return. (!)  Ideally show the contribution in a
> >     social context, because people vote for social reasons.
> 
> It's important that people can vote anonymously. But anyone can
> comment, in the various blog-spaces, and can sign their name if they
> wish (as I always do).
> 
> But yes, the website could announce each new ballot (without in any
> way identifying the voter). That would be of interest. We'll see if
> Augustin likes that idea. As it is now, each new ballot does show up
> in the "recent posts" or "latest posts" list, to which there is a link
> at right end of the top edge of the Realm of the USA screen, and every
> screen in the Realm of the USA.
> 
> >
> >   * Restrict voting to real people.  Bots and sock puppets ruin the
> >     social context and render the results meaningless.
> 
> Certainly. But bots don't usually vote in polls. I suppose someone
> could write one that does, if they wanted to distort a poll result.
> That could be discouraged by only letting registered members vote, or
> by using something like a "captcha" image, in which a voter would have
> to identify characters in an image, or answer a verbally-expressed
> question.
> 
> But, in order to get large participation, it's best for the poll to be
> open to the public, not just registered members.
> 
> But those are just my answers. Augustin might reply as well.
> 
> Mike Ossipoff


Augustin said:
> Hello Michael Allan and all,
> 
> 
> First of all, thanks to both Michaels: M. Allan for his 
> constructive remarks, and to M. Ossipoff for his answers by 
> which I stand. Before I reply to M. Allan, allow me to make 
> 2 general remarks.
> 
> The first one is that the site is in constant evolution. No 
> such site is ever complete and finished. I have myself 
> thousands of ideas of features that could be added and 
> things that could be improved. I try to prioritise my 
> limited development time according to what's more urgent or 
> what's easier to implement. I am currently working hard on 
> improving the back end which in turn will allow me to 
> improve the overall organisation of the site.
> 
> The second remark is that although I have my own huge list 
> of things I'd like to improve, I welcome user suggestions 
> like Michael's. It gives me some insight on what users would 
> like most. In that spirit, I just created a new poll where 
> registered users can submit specific ideas and vote on them: 
> http://minguo.info/usa/node/124 . Both Michaels are welcome 
> to add their own ideas...
> 
> 
> I reply now on the specific suggestions made:
> 
> 
> On Friday, August 17, 2012 22:49:27 Michael Allan wrote:
> >   * Display live counts and other signs of activity. 
> > Otherwise newcomers will assume the site is dead or
> > dying.
> 
> If one clicks on the 'Recent Posts' link, one can see that 
> there has been a lost of activity recently:
> http://minguo.info/usa/tracker
> This tracker is especially useful for registered members as 
> they can see which polls have been updated, which content 
> has been created and which blogs have had comments added 
> since their last visit.
> 
> 
> The site has indeed been dormant for a while, but it is now 
> very much alive. As I said, I am currently actively 
> developing both the content and the software. We are also 
> working on a major cooperation deal with Democracy 
> Chronicles (  http://www.democracychronicles.com/ ) that 
> should give a boost to both sites and, more importantly, to 
> the democracy movement.
> 
> Having said that, I already have in my mind many ideas that 
> I hope to implement sometime in the future that will help 
> users to focus their attention on the type of activity they 
> care the most about (see also below).
> 
> 
> >   * Show the contribution of each participant.  Don't
> > just take it and give nothing in return. (!)  Ideally
> > show the contribution in a social context, because
> > people vote for social reasons.
> 
> I can again reply in two parts: what already exists, and 
> what I am currently working on. 
> 
> One can already visit the user profile of each active member 
> and see both a link to their individual blogs on the site as 
> well as a tracking page of all the discussion threads a user 
> has been active.
> 
> I am also currently working on remodelling the back-end 
> precisely so that individual user blogs become more 
> prominent than they are right now.
> 
> In addition, I can think of dozens of small features I'd 
> like to implement sometime which would more social features 
> to active users. I must prioritise among all those things, 
> but there is a plan to improve the site along the lines your 
> are suggesting.
> 
> As to "giving something in return", the most important thing 
> the site provides is a voice to the user. Registered users 
> can use the existing, extensive polling feature of the site 
> to create polls on any topic of their choice, add any new 
> option or candidate to the majority of the currently running 
> polls, and, obviously, cast their own vote.
> 
> What's more, we've just launched a Community Manifesto:
> http://minguo.info/usa/manifesto
> which will compile all the policy positions adopted by the 
> active users (according to the results of each and every 
> poll). We aim to provide a platform that users can use to 
> express their collective opinion and work for change.
> 
> You can browse the manifesto and see the actively running 
> polls which answer the following questions, among many 
> others:
> 
> * "What would you like to use this site for?"
> * "What can we do to improve our democracy?"
> * "Which Election method do you like?"
> * "How to use this realm to "Promote better voting 
> systems"?"
> 
> The site is 100% free of advertising. I personally gain 
> nothing from it (on the contrary, it costs me money to host 
> and a *lot* of time to maintain and develop). It is a tool 
> that I provide for the community to use as they wish, to 
> promote their own policy agenda. Most importantly, it is a 
> tool I am actively developing to promote better Election 
> Methods and to further the cause of democracy. I hope this 
> fulfils your demand (for me) to "give something in return".
> 
> 
> >   * Restrict voting to real people.  Bots and sock
> > puppets ruin the social context and render the results
> > meaningless.
> 
> 
> By definition, the polls on the site are internet polls. As 
> such, they suffer all of the flaws of any internet poll 
> anywhere on the web. They also suffer the flaws of any 
> voting maching anywhere in the world. 
> 
> It is for a reason that I am personally a strong advocate 
> for paper and pencil only elections. See the "pencil and 
> paper criterion": http://minguo.info/node/70 
> 
> Having said that, I can assure you that I have taken 
> necessary measures to prevent ballot-box stuffing as much as 
> I can. I have implemented an algorithm that discards any 
> ballot that appears suspicious (hacking attempts, ballot box 
> stuffing attempts, etc.) I will not publicly discuss the 
> details of the implementation. However, I am obviously 
> dedicated to as much as possible ensure that the results are 
> meaningful and representative of the people who were 
> interested enough to take part in the polls.
> 
> On a related note, polls come in two general flavours:
> - polls open to any person, registered or not. Among them, 
> you have the 2012 presidential polls previously presented on 
> this list.
> - polls restricted to registered users: it is the results of 
> these polls that are used to draft our Community Manifesto.
> 
> 
> And now, in reply to Michael Ossipoff:
> 
> 
> On Friday, August 17, 2012 23:15:48 Michael Ossipoff wrote:
> > But yes, the website could announce each new ballot
> > (without in any way identifying the voter). That would
> > be of interest. We'll see if Augustin likes that idea.
> 
> Yes, I do. This is actually one of the thousands of ideas I 
> have floating at the back of my mind. Generally speaking, 
> I'd like to improve on the existing features, allowing users 
> to precisely track and get notified of changes that are of 
> interest to them: how many new ballots have been cast in 
> which polls, which new options have been added in running 
> polls, etc. It will take time to implement all of this, but 
> yes, that's the direction I want to go.
> 
> 
> 
> Blessings,
> 
> Augustin.