Domain specific language (DSL)

[David Bovill]

On 15 October 2010 10:50, Michael Allan <mike at zelea.com> wrote:

> David Bovill wrote:
> > However I am not a Java programmer, and I am not familiar with the
> > innards of Votorolla, so i would value your thoughts on this. What
> > I'd like to do is start hosting Votorolla on a good virtual host,
> > and start work personally on creating a wrapper for it in Groovy
> > (eventually leading to a DSL), so that we have the added flexibility
> > of being able to create Ruby on Rails like sites (ie in Grails) with
> > embedded Liquid Democracy...
>
> I guess almost all compilers can link to Java libraries.  You should
> have no problem, with or without Groovy (which I'm unfamilar with).
> You can call straight into Votorola's API.  It's well documented:
> http://zelea.com/project/votorola/_/javadoc/index.html
>
> But I wouldn't do that.  I'd float the UI separately, and call the
> servers via network protocols.  Don't worry about the coding of the
> service points, they're easy.  Worry about the design of the UI (more
> below).
>

The first thing to do will be to get it up and running on the server. I'd
also like to get it running on my laptop - but that is less important. Can
we organise an online coding session next week, where I can introduce you to
some coders who may be interested in getting involved - that way you could
talk us through the way things are structures and any installation issues?

Alex Rollin wrote:
> > Hi David ... I share...
>
> It's painful because Votorola is an exploratory project.  We've been
> exploring in abstract and prototype what might have taken decades to
> explore in production code.  (I guess I share too, when I recall all
> the code that was ditched on account of arch shifts.)  For sake of
> speed, and especially in the last year, we've suppressed coding and
> other deployment issues to a minimum.  That doesn't leave you much to
> come to grips with, I know.  I'm hopeful we can attract a
> nuts-and-bolts architect or a down-to-earth project leader, at some
> point.
>

I'd have to disagree. If we want these people, a project manager and/or
coder, then all that is needed is to go out and find one actively. It is not
an issue of technical complexity or the volatility of code, it is a lack of
a desire / prioritizing the social aspects of team work in terms of coding.
I hope we can emphasise this now. I did try before, but we reached an
impasse as i was unable to fund-raise for a project based on a sole
programmer who would not commit to being a part of an interdisciplinary
formal team. Funders and project managers cannot commit to a project when it
is not clear who will actually do the work. As at the time I did not know
any available and committed Java coders, it was not possible for me to
actively support the project with my time and energy. This is a classic
issue and no ones fault - it's just part of the system we live in. We simply
don't have the tools yet to make these sorts of interdisciplinary
collaborations possible (or at least not without a great deal of
interpersonal difficulty).

I think we have a chance now to give this a second go. This is partly
because I have the possibility to work with a group of developers, and I can
see how to do this in a practical way which is complementary with the bread
and butter things I have to do to keep afloat. It is also because I am
genuinely interested in exploring the new technical field of Domain Specific
Languages and  Language Oriented
Programming<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language_Oriented_Programming>.
There is no way I would learn Java, but I have decided to learn Groovy,
which is a modern dynamic language built on top of the JVM, and works much
more the way I like to code. Importantly it is ideally suited to the
creation of DSL's and this is particularly suited to a methodology of
working with stakeholders in the design of the language. In short it all
seems to come together for me at the moment, technically, socially and
philosophically - but most importantly practically.

Of course many of these things are at the moment slightly out of my depth,
and I am not sure about this strategy, but the only way to find out, is to
be open about it, and ask for advise - to roll up my sleeves and get my
hands dirty. I think we already have a relatively firm theoretical and
technical underpinning. We have next to nothing on interface or community
participation work, and we don't have an active open source project with
multiple contributors. Thats what working together, I hope we can provide to
Michael in terms of support  - whether he wants it or not :)

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